‍[00:02] Jennifer: Hi everyone, thanks for listening to The Founder Spirit podcast. I'm your host, Jennifer Wu. In this podcast series, I interview exceptional individuals from all over the world with the founder spirit, ranging from social entrepreneurs, tech founders, to philanthropists, elite athletes and more. Together, we'll uncover not only how they managed to succeed in facing multiple challenges, but also who they are as people and their human story. 

“The main purpose of life (on) this planet is to give care and take care of all life and beyond.”

“When you give care and take care in reciprocity with life, everything is in harmony because you appreciate and you love life.”

“Now is the time to think beautifully. That's the main thing that we can bring to the world, because we need to bring clean ideas, clean initiatives, clean energies. It is in the collective that we can create this flourishing energy that is needed.” 

Joining us today is the wise Mindahi Bastida, Founder and Convenor of The Earth Elders, a caretaker of the philosophy and traditions of the Otomi-Toltec People in Mexico.

Author of the book Ancestors, Mindahi is a spiritual leader and scholar who has dedicated his life to advocating for Indigenous rights, environmental protection, and the preservation of ancestral wisdom and sacred sites.

Just what lessons can the modern world draw from Indigenous cultures to restore harmony with nature? Well, let’s talk to him & find out.

Hello, Mindahi. Welcome to the Founder Spirit Podcast. Thank you for joining us today from Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta in northern Colombia. I know you're traveling with the Mamos and we're so privileged and delighted to have you with us. 

[02:05] Mindahi: Thank you, thank you for having me. And it's been a wonderful opportunity to be here in Sierra Nevada. We are meeting the Mamos and other spiritual leaders here around Santa Marta and Palomino and other beautiful places. 

I'm just very happy to be in this podcast with you, Jennifer, and thank you for putting together this program and this opportunity. 

[02:33] Jennifer: Thank you, Mindahi. Growing up in central Mexico, what were some of the key influences on your life? 

[02:40] Mindahi: Well, I grew up (on) an island surrounded by waters and also all what you see in the wetlands - the ducks, the plants, the marshes. In this area, the longest river in Mexico is born and it's called Daté or Lerma River nowadays.  

Daté is the father of the waters. But there is also a very special being that is the mother of the waters that we call Tlanchana, which is a mermaid. It's a mermaid with a serpent tail. 

When I was growing up, the influence of my grandfather, my grandmother from my father's side was very important, but also from my mother. She came from another community in the highlands of central Mexico, in the state of Hidalgo. 

So I could say that the first touch - it was with the water, but also with the milpas. The milpas is the (farming) system that we have - we grow together corn, squash, and beans. So I grew up with the plants, with the plant wisdom as well. 

I remember my grandfather telling me how this way of being, interacting with the land, interacting with Mother Earth and Father Sky was so important. 

I also learned how to appreciate music and dances, traditional dances. So my family comes from a lineage of musicians, but also dancers, especially my grandmother, from the lineage of the thunderbolt, the centella. So those were the main energies that I was growing up. 

[04:28] Jennifer: I understand your grandfather was an Aztec dancer, and your grandmother was actually struck by lightning. And because of that, she became a healer. And I think she was given three things, and among the three things was this red leather book. We are more than what we think. We are all what exists, what we can see and we can’t see. 

Your wife told me that growing up, your grandfather made you read this book from a very young age repeatedly, for almost a decade. And the book was written in the voice of the Divine Feminine about Creation. 

So I was wondering if you could share with us the story of Creation from that book. I think it's really important. It's also something that I'm very fascinated by. 

[05:13] Mindahi: Yes. When there was just darkness in the world, there was this being, (a) female crocodile. It was in a state of dormant. 

There was a light in the womb of the crocodile and this, in the spiritual mind of the Mother Crocodile, ignites the birth, in a way that the womb was open and the stars and the galaxies began to be formed. 

So she gave herself for this birth. She gave birth to all that we see and we cannot see because the universe is expanding. There are so many mysteries in the universe and the metaverse. So it's so beautiful, the Creation story - you can even feel the joy. 

I think the mothers know about that. When they are giving birth, there is also pain. But with the pain comes the joy, the happiness. So we understood that the possibilities are endless.

The beautiful thing in this material world is that you, me and other people, we are the result of those millions of possibilities to be in this dimension. That's the beauty of life. 

So yes, the Creation story talks about how this gave birth to these beings and also how the Solar System was created, of how this intertwined snakes, the feathered snakes (Quetzalcoatl), came together to also give their energy. 

So everything that we know, that we see around us comes from that moment of ignition, the original ways of coming to this dimension. And that's why we honor the stars. We honor other planets, especially the Sun, the Moon, we call Father Sun, Grandma Moon and Venus because it's a guiding star. But all other planets as well. 

[07:18] Jennifer: As the caretaker of philosophies and traditions of the Otomi-Totec people. How has your cultural heritage shaped your worldview? 

[07:30] Mindahi: Yes, we have a notion, very important, among the Otomi-Toltec, that we perceive us just as a relative to the natural world. We are nature. 

So even though we see the stones, like they don't move that much, but they are alive. They got this special energy. The plants that are most of the time still, there are plants that also travel. And animals and others. So for us, it's very important to think that we are just another species and we call them relatives.

For us, some special rocks are very sacred, very very sacred, and we also honor them. But what we know is that they hold wisdom. And this rational Western mind is not possible to understand. But they also grow, they also move. Because we live (a) very short time on this Earth, we don't perceive that much. 

But even there is a dance in the continental masses. Sometimes some continents sink, other times they go up, like the movement in the universe around the sun. And the sun is following other stars, and we follow the galaxy, and this galaxy follows another meta-galaxies. So this is the dance of life. 

And that's why it's so important in the Otomi-Toltec culture that we honor what we see and what is not seen. 

[09:06] Jennifer: So, you know, it's very interesting in Aikido, they practice Shintoism. And in Shintoism, they believe that the rocks have spirits and the mountains have spirits.

And it's interesting that you talk about the rocks and the stones because when I was in the Amazon, they do these dream circles. And I know that you did dream interpretation with your mother and your siblings growing up. 

And I dreamt of stones, rocks. And their interpretation was that because I dreamt about the rocks, that I was going to have a very long life (chuckles) because the rocks and the stones have been around for a long time. Anyway, I thought I shared an interesting tidbit with you, 

But another question that I had for you is, according to Indigenous philosophies, what is the purpose of life? You know, there's different, I guess, views on what is the purpose of life.

But I'm curious from your perspective, because you have been exposed to so many different philosophies within the Indigenous community. But also you were the Director of the Original Caretakers program at Union Theological Seminary. 

So I was wondering if you could maybe tell the audience, what is the purpose of life? 

[10:25] Mindahi: You know, we believe and we feel it because one thing is to believe, another one is to feel how you connect. 

So it means that thought is important, but also the way of being, the way of acting, the way of feeling is also very important. All of this is important because we are transcending, we are becoming ancestors as well. 

So the purpose of life, as a species, in general, is to flourish. It’s the unification process, unity in the diversity. But for human beings, the purpose of life is to take care of life. Because we came here with this mind, with this spirit, with this body, which needs to evolve. 

But we are not alone. We have so many other species around that they also need to interact with us, and we need to interact with them. And beautiful beings can arise from that. When you give care and take care in reciprocity with life, everything is in harmony, because you appreciate and you love life. You cannot erode the original basis of life. 

So the Earth Ethics, they come from the universe, the law of nature, the law of the universe, the natural law. So that's the basis, that's the original instructions. 

So we need just to be mindful that we have to behave, behave as human beings with other relatives, with other species. So we believe also that the main purpose of life in this planet is to give care and take care of all life and beyond.  

Because we also need beautiful thinking, good thoughts, so we can act accordingly. It's so beautiful when you see how life moves, and life in reciprocity gives you joy, happiness, it's because you are acting accordingly. 

So we believe that's the main purpose in life for human beings - to give care of everything that is around us. 

[12:55] Jennifer: And when you say life, It's obviously more than just animal life and plant life. It's also the mountains and the rivers and the natural environment. Because in the Indigenous philosophies, the earth is alive or the universe is alive.

[13:10] Mindahi: Life… even we don't understand enough, this rational mind doesn't allow us. But when you are connected to mystery, you can feel beyond that. In other words, what I want to say is that there are things that happen and there is no rational explanation for those things. 

And many of us, we have gone through that in those experiences. And sometimes we don't want to share with others because they might think that we are crazy. But I have had, in the past, many experiences, beautiful experiences. 

Once I was in ceremony and it was in Ecuador, but some Mamos were with us in ceremony during the night. And suddenly, I began to hear this beautiful melody, this beautiful symphony. And remember, I told you that I'm also a musician ever since I was 5-years old. 

So I know instruments, I know the trumpet, the trombone, tube, many instruments. I could recognize some of them through this symphony, but others I could say more than hundreds (of) instruments I have never heard. And this symphony lasted for hours, I think three hours. 

And I was just in ecstasy, exhausted of listening so much. I was in (complete) happiness. And where does this come from? From the sky, underneath the earth? I couldn't know until I was concentrating myself.

And this melody came from the heart of that moment. And it was so beautiful. It was so amazing. And I was awake, I was not dreaming. 

[14:58] Jennifer: That's beautiful. Actually, we had a ceremony with, I don't know if you know, Manari Ushigua.

Yeah. So we were in ceremony with him back in Ecuador, and he had a very special instrument that he said came from the Kogis. And it's this beautiful musical instrument that I think it's made out of ceramic or out of clay. It's like a flute, it played the most beautiful music that I have ever heard. 

[15:25] Mindahi: Okay. We also have very beautiful instruments, and we have a very special instrument among our peoples. It's called the Silbato de la Muerte - the death of whistle is to call the transcendence of the spirit, so they can also bring the balance and the healing to the world and for the people. 

[15:48] Jennifer: So speaking of ceremonies, Mindahi, you have been a Ritual Ceremony Officer since the late 80s. Can you speak about the importance of these rituals and ceremonies and how they contribute to planetary healing? 

[16:04] Mindahi: In the beginning of (time), everything was ceremonial. We used to live in ceremony all the time in our lives. 

But after some time, some cultures began to go away from ceremonies, like not taking into consideration the movements of the stars or the cycles of life. Some people began to misbehave. 

We need to be in harmony, in balance with life, with others - that's the remembrance of the ceremony. Through ceremony, we acknowledge other beings that we cannot see, the energy, the spirits, the guardians. 

So ceremony is so important because then we remember that we are one in the universe, that we are given special instructions (on) how to live in harmony with this planet, the universe. 

But beginning with ourselves, beginning with our families, with our communities, with our territories, with the four worlds. And then we don't forget the other stars. So ceremony is not just for this earth. Ceremony is for what we don't even see, but we feel. 

Ceremonies are directed to acknowledge how this beautiful planet is nurturing us. We are the children of this planet. We wouldn't be alive if this planet was not here. This is our mother. That's the reason we call Mother Earth, because she's nurturing us. 

But also we got bigger family, like Father Sun. Just imagine if the sun was not here, or even the moon. Life wouldn't be possible as we know it. Because there is always life in the universe. But at least in this dimension, we honor those beings. 

So ceremony, rituals are to remember that we are connected to mystery. And we also acknowledge those spirits who dwell in those places, so life is possible because as we receive, we give. 

Ceremonies is a way to give offerings and payments so we ask for enough energy just for the rain to come.  We ask not to disturb the plantations, but just to give them enough to the mountains and not to destroy the milpas, the corn fields or the rice fields. So it's about that. 

And we have many types of ceremony. Ever since we are born, we go through ceremony and the rite of passage. We have so many beautiful ceremonies that are kept and synchronized with other religions. 

We honor, for example, when the girls are about to turn 15-years old, but also around 18-years old. And for the boy, 13-years old, there are other ceremonies. Ceremonies to give names, ceremonies to acknowledge the names, ceremonies for the dead - so beautiful. 

Maybe people have seen Coco the movie, Diaz de los Muertos, the Days of the Dead. And it's not just one day. We honor the ancestors and we honor the passage through the other dimensions. And that's the joy. 

So for us in the Otomi-Toltec and the Mesoamerican cultures, death is a transition. We need to be prepared anytime. And so we can encounter a good passage, a good transition and transcendence. 

[19:47] Jennifer: When you said something about how we believe that there are spirits in the river earlier. Actually, I was thinking even back in the Chinese culture, we believed that there are spirits in the rivers. And we also did ceremonies in ancient times to give back to the river, to give food. 

And I guess it's all very similar. It's just very ancient, ancestral knowledge, which we don't practice anymore. But to think that it was always part of our culture, or always part of many ancient cultures around the world. 

Mindahi, you were a key figure as a youth delegate at the 1992 Earth Summit in Rio. Among its major achievements from the Earth Summit, there was the agreement on the Convention on Climate Change, which led to Kyoto Protocol and the Paris Agreement, and also the Convention on Biological Diversity, and an agreement to not to carry out any activities on the lands of Indigenous peoples that would cause environmental degradation or deemed culturally inappropriate. 

Three decades on, the CO2 emissions continue to rise and we are not on track to meet the 1.5C degree target. We have also failed to meet the biodiversity targets. And not to mention that in the Amazon and other rainforests are currently under threat, as well as the rights of Indigenous people who live on those lands. 

So there's two questions that I actually have. One is what was the Earth Summit like three decades ago? And in your opinion, where have we failed? 

[21:34] Mindahi: Yes, I must say that the Earth Summit, it was a beautiful experience where many governments, so called parties, NGOs, INGOs and many other like-minded people came to do something for this planet, to do something for the beauty of what we call landscapes. 

But actually, I found myself being together with other young people and many messages were delivered, beautiful agreements like you have mentioned, the three international treaties, this international regime to protect life, to protect biodiversity, to protect the climate, to protect also erosion, you know, the desertification which is advancing. 

So it was a big moment. Many artists also came together, lawmakers and beautiful people. So it was a celebration for life. But what has happened since then is that we are not doing better. As you have mentioned, we are not meeting our responsibilities as human beings with other species. 

And I remember how beautiful it was seeing all these Peoples from around the world, especially people from the Amazon who were our hosts. I remember I met Chief Raoni, he was younger at that time, and many other chiefs from the Amazon. As young people that we were there,  governments and also the enterprises and the big corporations to really meet the responsibility to protect life, to protect the environment, to protect their needs. 

Because as you know, we also think about all of what we see, and underneath there is also life. There (are) rivers in the sky, there are rivers underneath, there are rivers on the surface that need to be protected. But especially the ancestral territories where Original Nations, so-called Indigenous peoples, live. 

Because we were seeing something - the massive destruction, the taking over lands and growing oil production and the gold mining, not just like before the traditional mining, now it was open mining. And the destruction is massive. Not just for the extraction, but what is left behind. 

So what has been happening is very few advancements, even in the historical treaties with the colonial powers towards Indigenous Peoples around the world. They were not honored. The same is happening, and the same has been happening with these international instruments. 

There is no honor when they sign something. Some parties, they don't do enough work. And even the societies, we follow those lack of commitments. Because we waste so much (water), we stain the waters. We are part of the problem, but we can be part of the solution if we want, if we honor what is written. 

International regimes, they also need to look at the original instructions and the original principles to be. It means the Earth ethics, the laws of the universe, the laws of nature. 

For this reason, I think we are in a very critical situation, not just around climate, we need climate restoration, the restoration of biodiversity. But also cultures, restoration of cultures, restoration of the human species - how to live in harmony among ourselves with other beings, harmony with nature for harmony with the universe. 

So we can write another story. We can do it together. It's not that we want to create a new world, we cannot create a new world. But we can come together and just respect life, and respecting life is so important. 

[26:02] Jennifer: Mindahi, I'm really happy that you had mentioned that we need to go back to these original instructions and original principles. 

And I was wondering if you can tell us, for those of us who live in the modern world, what do you mean by original instructions and original principles? What are they? 

[26:19] Mindahi: Original principles, original instructions, they are the basic principles that we have been holding since immemorial time. Actually, they are taught by nature, they are taught by the universe. It's related to the natural law or the law of the universe. 

So the original instructions are also referring to the way of being, way of acting, way of doing and the way of feeling. In that sense, we are just one species among others. And we also see how these principles are very important for other species and all life.

One of the most powerful principles is reciprocity. Reciprocity is when you receive, you also give back. And it's (a) very beautiful principle because it creates harmony, it creates balance in the relationships. 

Another principle that is very important is the principle of responsibility, the way of being. 

I'm just referring to them in a very short version - we have 13 until now, but we can share at least some 3 or 4 more. 

So one of the most powerful principles in life is love. Because love is a manifestation, is an intention (of) how we relate to other beings, how you give and create this energy. 

But also love is the manifestation of life in all what exists. Just imagine the seeds, how they flourish and how they give, the trees, the animals. So it's all about this manifestation of good feeling. Because love is about (being) happy, and when it is manifested is so wonderful. 

And another principle also is time and space. Because we were born in a space, in a time as well. So we are not just this matter, but how we relate to other beings. In this case, we also honor where the sun is rising, where the sun is setting.

That's very important because they tell us how to live in the cycles of life. And it's very important also to acknowledge the cycles of the moon, and the cycles of Venus, and constellations. So that's a principle. Then when we are honoring the four directions and above and down and in here, we also can live in harmony. 

Another principle to share is about precaution, the knowledge that we have in advance, so we cannot carry out whatever we want. But we have to be cautious, we have to bear in mind, in our consciousness, in the decision process,  this precautionary principle. So this is what also nature and all manifestations of life is about, because then harmony can come to us if we really carry out our actions with, let's say, due diligence.

And there are other principles, of course, like the collective dignity, principles like subsidiarity. And those principles are from Origins. Those are very basic principles from immemorial times, or the law of origin, (on) how we can behave and how we can be happy in this world. 

[30:18] Jennifer: So there's so many questions that I have. When I was recently in the Amazon, (it) was, I think, the first time in a long time where I lived with the cycle of the Earth. Because we didn't have electricity in the evening, when the sun set, there was no more electricity. 

And so you're forced to live with the cycle of nature, with the rhythm of nature. So we all, at least I went to bed, I think, you know, around 9, and also woke up right before dawn. I felt much more connected, but also because I was in the forest, I was not in an urban setting. 

But the other thing that I want to ask you, and you mentioned this a number of times, is Venus. So we understand that the cycle of life, there's the Father Sky, Mother Earth and then Grandmother Moon. But you mentioned Venus. Why is Venus so important in the cycle of life? 

[31:07] Mindahi: Venus is the main star, the most powerful star in the Otomi-Toltec cosmo vision. Because it's a leading star that in the origins, Venus was underneath the waters when the Creation happened. So this is a marker, this is a powerful presence. 

And as you know, our ancestors were able to understand that Venus was the same star as the morning star and the night star, the most powerful and the bright one. But they came to this knowledge because they were star observers ever since many years ago. 

Venus has been present in the most powerful times, when the most important things happen during the flourishing of our ancestor civilization of the Otomi-Toltec.So that's important. 

[32:09] Jennifer: That's fascinating because also Geraldine had mentioned it to me a couple of times in our conversations, and I didn't really understand that. So I'm glad that you have clarified. 

Mindahi, you're the founder and convener of the Earth Elders, which is incorporated as a 501c3 nonprofit, the Grand Council of the Eagle and the Condor. I was wondering if you could speak a little bit about the Prophecy of the Eagle and the Condor and what implication it has related to our actions. 

[32:43] Mindahi: Yes, the prophecy of the Eagle and the Condor is a prophecy that is being shared, especially among Original Nations and People in the Americas. But it's not just for this continent, that prophecy. 

This prophecy talks about reunification of the Peoples. Due to the colonization and all (that) has implied - the separation of peoples due to the establishment of nation states, and the slavery, and the taking over of lands - at least five centuries in the Americas, similarly in Africa and Asia. 

It was said that there was going to come the time when the eagle that represents the north, peoples of the North, was going to come together with the peoples of the south that are represented by the Condor. And these are two sacred animals, but they represent people, they represent territories, they represent biocultural diversity. 

So it was in 1992 when we began to carry out this, the 500 years. For some, they were celebrating the discovery (of the new continent), but for us, we were not celebrating the colonial times. And in 1992 was the first time when people from Alaska and people from Tierra del Fuego in the south, they came together to Mexico by running. Those were called the journeys of freedom and liberty of Original Peoples. 

Ever since, this prophecy has been unfolding. And the prophecy talks about the peoples coming together in this unification process from the north to the south and from the east to the west. So this is happening, and we can see how the Peoples are now exchanging. 

And this is not just for Original Nations and Peoples. Because it is said that a new dawn is coming, a new era, a new calendar. And it began (on) May 3, 2013 to May 3, 2026. We are passing through these very difficult times. 

But at the same time, even though it's very challenging, we have many opportunities to remember those original instructions that we must behave and come back to our place and really exchange and raise consciousness about ancestral wisdom.

And based on ancestral wisdom, how to really live in peace, how we can flourish again as human beings. And that's the beauty of the prophecy. 

But this time the prophecy is not going to happen just because it's going to happen. We have this agency as humans in meeting this prophecy in a beautiful way. 

So it depends on how we are going to find the new time. Maybe we are going to find (it) in several ways, but we understand that we are coming together to be stronger and to really support each other as humanity. 

[36:15] Jennifer: You had mentioned that it's a transitional period between now and May 3, 2026. It doesn't feel like the dawn of a new era. I don't know, it feels like an era of chaos has just been unleashed in the last couple months. I have a lot of friends in the U.S., even some friends here in Europe who are going through a really tough time. 

And so you think what's happening is catalytic for what we're about to receive, so that we could make the choice or not to either continue or to shift the paradigm? 

[36:55] Mindahi: Yes. I want to put this analogy from my Asian brother and Elder, and he's a member of the Earth Elders, Nasaki from Japan. And we always talk about this prophecy, but he says this prophecy could be an analogy like when we are flying an airplane to encounter the new dawn. 

And maybe it depends on how we are going to encounter this new dawn. If it's going to be a crash landing because we have misbehaved so much, it is going to be a bumpy landing like we have experienced when we travel, or is it going to be a soft landing?

And I think doing this spiritual consultations and also reading about what is happening in the world with climate change, with the floods, with the fires, everything that is happening. And even in the financial world, how things are just chaotic. 

And now I can say something about it. I see that we are going to encounter the three ways, because some people who has been misbehaved so much is going to find this new era as a crash landing. Some people who have met responsibilities more or less is going to find this new era as a bumpy, very difficult time. 

But some others who have respected the original instructions, they are going just to continue doing what they have been doing. Living with nature in the cycles of nature, living with life, living with the notion of time and space in a cycle of time, not living faster, not living slower than the cycles of life. So that's what I can share with you about these prophecies.

[39:01] Jennifer: Wonderful. Now let's go back to talking about the Earth Elders as you had mentioned. Can you tell us what it is and how it came about? I'd love to hear the origin story about the Earth Elders. 

[39:15] Mindahi: Yes. Actually it was in 2013 when we gathered more than 150 spiritual leaders in Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta, Colombia. And over there, we were for a week, and we received these instructions, these Earth Mandates, because the chaos was already visible everywhere. 

So in order to be resilient and to be alive, we received these Earth Mandates about how to come together or how to honor the spiritual authorities of Original Nations and People through the establishment of the Councils of the Elders. 

So that's the reason it came to life, the Grand Council of Eagle and the Condor, but also the Council of 13 and ultimately the formation of the Council of the 52, which are related to the bio- regions or biocultural regions of the world.

In order to keep alive an exchange and raise consciousness based on ancestral knowledge and ancestral wisdom, so we can support and elevate consciousness with others, with anyone who wants to really remember or really to take responsibilities about our life in this world. 

So the second Earth Mandate is about protection and also reconnection with sacred sites, sacred sites because they are so important. They are the, let's say, the energy producers, the energy givers, so other species can live like us. So the importance of those places are very high because they produce these special energies so all living beings can flourish. 

And the third Earth Mandate is the establishment of the Houses of Original Thoughts. The spiritual houses are the places where the fire is at the center as a sacred element. And then the Elders carry out several activities around, especially delivering messages or lessons or knowledge that is meaningful for the flourishing of life, for the care of life, because we understand that our presence here in this world as human beings is the care of life. 

And then these houses are being built in every bio-region. We have already some here in Mexico in the Yucatan Peninsula with the Mayans, but also one here in Central Mexico with the Otomi-Toltec, one in Chile with the Mapuche, and another one in Colombia with the Arhuacos Peoples and with the Kogi also. 

But we want to establish at least 13 Houses of Thought before we encounter May 3, 2026. And then we are aiming to build 52 in every bio-regions of the world with representations of the elders. 

But also the other Earth mandate is the intercultural dialogue, intercultural exchange. And this is about our presence in international forums or national forums. Like we have been in several meetings of the UN like COP over the climate change and the biodiversity, Convention of Biodiversity in the COP. 

And as you know, I was recently invited at the World Economic Forum, but also I've been participating in the World Water Forum and other meaningful and very powerful gatherings worldwide. Our presence there is to deliver messages, but also have presence because our presence now is more important than ever as Original Nations and Peoples. 

As you know, we give care. And it's already acknowledged by the UN bodies and other institutions that 80% of biodiversity is in our territories, but they are under threat. I must say that 80%, this is true, but it's not the whole truth, because we give care not just to biodiversity, but we give care to the cultures that we represent. So in other words, we give care to 80% of biocultural diversity. 

And beyond that, when we move, when we go here and there, we are not just giving care of the 80% - we pray, we give offerings to Mother Earth. So actually, we are taking care about 100% of biodiversity, of biocultural diversity of the world, because we take care and give care about biocultural memory, biocultural heritage, biocultural diversity. 

It's who we are. That's the importance of the Original Nations and Peoples in this world. 

[44:44] Jennifer: As part of these five mandates, you traveled alongside other Earth Elders to the Himalayas in 2023 to meet His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Your encounter was documented in Oliver Sullenger's documentary film called A Condor Over Shambhala, Shambhala being (the) mystical place of peace in Tibetan Buddhism. 

What is the meaning of your journey? I have to mention this because when we showed the film in Davos at the Sacred Shell, many people came up to me afterwards, they said, oh, I didn't know that there was this exchange between the Indigenous elders and Tibetan Buddhism. 

For me, it felt very natural because these are ancient civilizations, right? And also I remember in the film A Condor of Shambhala, where you mentioned that there were spiritual exchanges previously. 

What do you think is the meaning of this visit and what insight did you gain from your exchanges with the Tibetan Buddhist community? 

[45:56] Mindahi: First of all, it's been a great opportunity to be there, but we have been also with the spiritual leaders of the world. Myself, I have been with the Pope and exchanged some of our concerns and some of ancestral wisdom as well. 

Being there in a holy place where His Holiness is, the Dalai Lama, and with some of the most beautiful and powerful thinkers in Buddhism. As you know, they are in the northern part of India. 

And being there is just a remembrance because in ancestral times, (according) to what I received from my elders, there was communication from very old times when they used to be children. Actually, even the Kogi told me, grandfathers or grandmothers used to visit here and there, and they used to be welcome, and we used to receive them as well. 

So exchanging this way of being is very beautiful because then we can remind them about these original instructions. They also are sharing how they carry out their practices. And some practices are very similar, very very similar. Just changing some names because there's another language. 

So when we were in Dharamshala we noticed that, but we went deeper with the Ripoche about some themes that are more philosophical. And we found that we share common ground, a common way of thinking, and also how we perceive the importance of other beings. So it was a very beautiful and meaningful gathering.

Shambhala and other concepts alike, we also have, like Maheti, where everything is in harmony. But that's why we also share with them that Maheti is also here, that Shambhala is also here in this world, is when you connect inside and then you begin to reconnect with other beings. And then other dimensions are possible. 

And their rituals are so amazing. They also make payments through the offering, through the fire. It's just, it’s amazing. And they carry out these mandalas, we don't call them mandalas, we call them pantlis. 

We use not sand, but we use roots, flowers, and we make pantlis, and then we offer (them) to the mountain, to the rivers. We saw how they were offering this to the rivers. And this is just other kind of expressions, but for the same purpose. 

[49:06] Jennifer: And they make beautiful mandalas, very elaborate. And then they destroy it to teach the concept of impermanence. 

But I think the principles that you spoke of earlier, the reciprocity, responsibility, love, time and space, the collective responsibility, that's also in the teachings of almost every religion, I think. So there's so much similarities. 

I wanted to also talk about the Kogi people. I know you just came back from spending quite some time with them. Mamo Manuel is a revered spiritual leader and wisdom keeper of the Kogi People, an Indigenous community residing in the Sierra Nevadas de Santa Marta in northern Colombia. 

And the Kogis are direct descendants of the ancient Tairona civilization. And because of colonization, they have moved from the coast up to the mountains now. And they see themselves as guardians of the Earth. And they are the elder brothers, and they call us the younger brothers. 

And Mamo Manuel appeared in the documentary film Aluna, and he is the spiritual advisor to the Earth Elders. And I understand that you consider him to be a mentor. So for someone that lived in a cave for 36 years, in a dark cave, what does Mamo Manuel have to teach us about life on Earth and our collective responsibility? 

[50:39] Mindahi: Yes, I must say that we are very blessed to have Mamo Manuel with us because he's a holy man, he's a wise man. He also cares for many families and many mountains, and he carries out the offerings. 

It's about the responsibility in this world - the presence, as a being in this matter, but also in the thinking. So one of the teachings that we have received lately is about how the world has been confused with so much information. 

So he said, now is the time to think beautifully. So I said, well, think beautifully is not that easy. And he said, yes, and that's the main thing that we can bring to the world, because we need to bring clean ideas, clean initiatives, clean energies. 

And this is a way for us to rethink our presence in this world. Because, as you know, most of the thoughts or the thinking that we carry out during the day is repetitive or even negative, and (a) very tiny percentage is positive. 

So how we direct our mind, and put our mind in this frequency, because everything is energy. If we create, with this beautiful thinking, an energy that we can carry out beautiful lectures so we can feel beautiful as well. And that's called happiness. And we deserve happiness. But happiness depends on how we act in this world, how we believe, how we also do carry out things. So that's the latest, let's say, lesson. 

Because I understand now when we were talking about the Buddhist, how they are carrying out these techniques of contemplation or meditation. And that's precisely matter or mind in order not to be scattered, but to be focused in the light. And that's the beautiful thinking he was telling me. And he said, you need to carry out and spread that message to the world. 

So Manuel has been very significant for all the Council of the Earth Elders and beyond that. And beyond that, because the way he does and the way he carries out, the way he cares is just very beautiful. And he says it's not just about now, we need to look for balance. It's not just about contemplation and meditation, it's also to carry out our responsibilities, our duties in this life. 

So when we carry out any action, we also need to put our energies or thoughts in a good way. He was saying, a good way. I said, well, what is a good way? Like he says, in a loving way, with love, with that intention, so he was telling me about intention. 

Like in the economics, they treat everything as objects, as a commodity. Even the water is a resource. And for us it's a being - water is a being and it's a sacred element. 

And I remember my father and my grandfather, they used to say if you use some words with intention, they are blessing other people. But if you are using those words with another kind of intention, they are affecting negatively to other people. 

So the intention is very important - it’s highly important from the individual to the collective, how we can really keep care. Not just because you are you, because you are everyone. 

[54:51] Jennifer: You know, it's interesting what you said about having beautiful thoughts. And I think that's a main teaching. And a lot of Indigenous cultures and even in Hinduism - I've been studying the Bhagavad Gita now. And having beautiful thoughts is about conquering your mind, is really about conquering the mind. It's also why the Buddhists meditate and to act collectively in responsibility. 

And in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna talks about doing your duty without attachment to the results, without attachment to the outcome, but just to focus on doing your duty. Because that's what you're supposed to do. And that the outcome depends on so many things, including you doing the work, but you don't necessarily have influence over all these other factors that’s in the physical or in the spiritual world. 

One thing that I wanted to ask you - you mentioned there are 13 Earth Elders and there are 52 strategic biocultural sites, sacred sites. And there's also a documentary, the Earth Elders, that's being filmed currently. I'm happy to put the teaser online as part of the show notes so that people can see. 

But I also wanted to ask you, how can the listeners out there support the mission of the Earth Elders? 

[56:21] Mindahi: First of all, acknowledging the presence of the Original Nations and People. Why (is it) so important? Why? As human species, we are here for a purpose. And then think about the Earth Elders, the spiritual leaders.

You can support in many ways. We have a web page, but we also have some actions to carry out, establishment of the Houses. And in a more secular way is the establishment of the University of the Forest in the Amazon, the University of Mother Earth and these areas. So we need also support, material support, but also good thinking, the prayers.

We are doing this film and a series of films are coming in the next years because we want to disseminate this message in a very meaningful way. So more people understand why it's important that we deliver these messages and this ancestral wisdom. 

How we can reconnect and carry out our responsibilities, how we can meet our responsibilities as human species, from the me to the we. Because you're stuck in an individual way, it’s not going to have a lot of impact. It is in the collective that we can create this flourishing energy that is needed. 

So if you can support the Elders, we have a web page and you can meet the elders  - who we are/ And we are expanding to 52. We need also support to carry out some of the most important activities in our territories. 

One of the most expensive acts that we are carrying out now is to recover the ancestral territory, so we can protect them or they can protect lives. In other words, well, it’s a reciprocity way of thinking. So if you support us, you are supporting yourself at the same time. We are supporting you, we are supporting ourselves. That's a reciprocity way of being. 

And then we can collaborate. Collaboration is the way in and the way out. Competition has been in the Western world, the main thing, but it's taking us to erosion, it's taking us to death, extinction. 

So this is a great opportunity to support the Earth Elders, support the community, support the Original Nations and Peoples, because we want to continue supporting life, supporting you. 

[59:16] Jennifer: Thank you, Mindahi. I just want to mention that the website is TheEarthElders.org and the Earth Elders actually come from all over the world. They're from the Americas, from Asia, from Europe, from the Arctic, and from the Polynesian Navigator community as well. So really, thank you for all the work that you're doing. 

You were a speaker on a recent panel in Davos on the rights of nature. Ecuador has enshrined the rights of nature in its 2008 constitution. And obviously, nature cannot speak for itself in a court of law. And some people feel very strongly that the Indigenous People were best placed to advocate on the behalf of nature. 

So if Mother Nature could talk, what would she say? 

[01:00:05] Mindahi: Well, Mother Earth is a mother and we are the children. And she says, take care of myself, love Mother Earth as I love you. 

[01:00:16] Jennifer: You talked about the agreements that were made at the Earth Summit not being honored. So as we are now just a bit over 200 days away from COP30, what do you hope to achieve at Belem this year? 

[01:00:30] Mindahi: First of all, acknowledgement of the forests and the other living species as beings. Because we need to understand that the rights of nature is a burning international regime, but we also need to go beyond that. We need to put Earth jurisprudence beyond this anthropocentric thought. We need also to be more humble and more active for the care of life. 

So if some governments would honor his agreements… And actually the scientists are saying we are late. We have always been late because we don't live in the time space cycles, because we want to hurry up and do things and change everything and (master) nature. But it's not the way. We need to be more humble and just to live in the cycles of life. 

And for this, the road to COP, the road to Belem is going to be very meaningful for all of us, for the government, especially for governments, because they need to really honor and to (take) more actions and to meet their responsibilities. Not just because it's legal, not just because of that, because life is important. 

[01:01:56] Jennifer: Thank you. 

Your book, Ancestors, explores the profound connection that we share with our ancestors. Can you share with us your notion of ancestors beyond blood relations? I want to make a point of mentioning that because when you mention it at the Sacred Shell, it really brought tears to a lot of the people in the audience. So please share with us your notion of the ancestors. 

[01:02:21] Mindahi: Yes, we know that ancestors, or grandfathers or grandmother, they were very important for us to be here in this world. But actually, as many old traditions, many old deep traditions, that they understand that we are the reflection of the sacred elements, the reflection of the universe, of selves, as this species and any other species, meaning that we came from the lineages of our grandmothers, grandfathers. 

But ancestors is not just the lineage family. Ancestors are of the volcanoes. Ancestors are the mountains, the rivers, the seas, the wetlands, the paramos. Ancestors are the caves, and the moon, the sun, Venus. Ancestors are stars, the ones that we see and the ones that have gone. So in other words, we are becoming ancestors. 

And that's why we also have this beautiful remembrance and rituals about the Days of the dead. Wherever I go, I take the sacred landscape of this territory, of the Toluca Valley, the volcano, the wetlands, the river. And when I come back, they embrace me, they embrace me. I feel at home. 

And now, as my consciousness is expanding, I also feel in other territories like home. And it's so beautiful. But I never forget where I was born, in what conditions, in what season, in what age. 

Also time and space is our ancestors. We are more than what we think. We are all what exists, what we can see and we can’t see. The love we give to the little ones is the love they are going to continue giving to other beings. 

[01:04:44] Jennifer: If we have someone listening, let's say a business leader, and he's tuning into your message and he realizes that the way that the world's been operating is not the trajectory for a more equitable and sustainable future, what can he do in his daily life or in his business life, professional life to change that? 

[01:05:12] Mindahi: First of all, rethink and think about what kind of business the corporation has. If the business is creating conflict, extraction, is creating disharmony and creating chaos and destruction, then the corporation needs to rethink about their activities. It's not just about profit, it's about being.They have the chance to transit from this extractive way to a more loving business that respects life and gives care of life. 

Because change is coming and change is here. We are always in transition. But this transition is big because this time, this being Mother Earth, even if she loves us so much, we are going to have our lessons and we are having our lessons. 

Many businesses in these categories are going to disappear - many. Because there is no way that they can sustain themselves, there is no way. And we are a little late, but there's always time to change. And change is coming whether we like it or not. It is the time and the time is now. 

[01:06:36] Jennifer: And so many of us feel powerless and hopeless at the moment in today's world. So one last question I want to ask you, what gives you hope for the future of humanity that come May 3, 2026 that we're going to make it? 

[01:0:53] Mindahi: Together, we are stronger. We need to come together in this unification process. And whatever is unfolding, whatever is coming, together we are stronger.

And we need to learn our lessons to be more simple, with more responsibility in this world. The sky is watching us, because we are not alone. Mother Earth is not alone. 

So we don't know so many things, but things are happening and we need to be always prepared. It's like the notion of death is going to happen, like we need to be prepared for anything. We don't have to be all the time worried, but in our acts of the daily lives, we can be prepared and be resilient and transcendental as human beings. 

[01:07:48] Jennifer: Thank you. Mindahi, would you like to give a closing prayer before we end this episode? 

[01:07:55] Mindahi: Yes. (speaking in Indigenous language)

I give great thanks for this opportunity, brothers and sisters, the ones who are there and listening. We give great thanks to the life and life systems. We give great thanks to the four sacred elements of life, to the four directions, to the mystery. 

We give great thanks for this opportunity to be in this world, that we are not going to be here forever, just for a while. While being here, we must meet our responsibilities for being, helping beautifully. 

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 

[01:08:55] Jennifer: Thank you, Mindahi. 

We're now coming to the end of our interview and as you know, we end every episode with a quote. And for this episode, we have a quote from Crazy House, a Lakota leader who fought against the encroachment on Native American lands:

“I see a time of Seven Generations when all the colors of mankind will gather under the Sacred Tree of Life and the whole Earth will become one circle again.” 

Thank you, Mindahi, for taking the time to join us on the podcast today and sharing with us all of your ancestral wisdom and showing us how we can take on the collective responsibility to restore harmony and peace within ourselves, with each other and with the natural world. 

Thank you for joining us. 

[01:09:48] Jennifer: If this podcast has been beneficial or valuable to you, feel free to become a patron and support us on Patreon.com, that is P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com/TheFounderSpirit. 

As always, you can find us on Apple, Amazon and Spotify, as well as social media and our website at TheFounderSpirit.com. 

The Founder Spirit podcast is a partner of the Villars Institute, a nonprofit foundation focused on accelerating the transition to a net-zero (and nature-positive) economy and restoring planetary health. 

[01:10:25] END OF AUDIO