‍[00:02] Jennifer: Hi everyone, thanks for listening to The Founder Spirit podcast. I'm your host, Jennifer Wu. In this podcast series, I interview exceptional individuals from all over the world with the founder spirit, ranging from social entrepreneurs, tech founders, to philanthropists, elite athletes, and more. Together, we'll uncover not only how they managed to succeed in facing multiple challenges, but also who they are as people and their human story.

Thanks a lot for tuning in and I really hope that you’ve enjoyed season 3 of the Founder Spirit podcast. If you’d like to hear a bit more about my key takeaways from this season, trip to the Amazon, and learnings from the Bhagavad Gita, feel free to listen to this season’s wrap-up conversation with my friend Ingrid.

[00:52] Ingrid: Hi, Jennifer. So you've just finished three seasons of the Founder Spirit podcast. It's really an amazing achievement. So do you think you've reached cruising speed or do some challenges still remain?

[01:06] Jennifer: First of all, Ingrid, I want to say that I really appreciate your doing this again. I think it's the fourth time around that we're doing this, and thank you for your support on my journey. 

Have I reached cruising speed? I don't think so. Maybe I'm a little bit too hard on myself. Things are definitely getting easier, but I feel like that it's always a work-in-progress, as it is in my life journey. I feel like that we are perhaps always striving to reach that point of perfection, and it's perhaps out of reach, but we're always trying to move towards that. 

And I think what is really important is (that) while things are easier now that I feel more established, I also don't want to take anything for granted. The key is to always stay humble and not get sucked into the illusion of personal success, because that always comes and goes, and as (in) life, there are always ups and downs. 

I feel that I've been really blessed by having amazing guests on my show, and I hope that I will continue to attract amazing guests on the show.

[02:14] Ingrid: So once again, on this season, you've had some incredible guests and such interesting episodes. Can you tell us maybe how you find your guests to invite on your show?

[02:25] Jennifer: Actually, it's interesting - somebody had just asked me that at the dinner party last night. And the honest answer is, I'm not sure or I don't know. They sometimes come to me as chance encounters, and sometimes they come to me as friendly referrals. 

I think that there is a certain serendipity that happens, and I do feel that when you're doing something that you're supposed to be doing, and when you do it out of authenticity and out of passion, the universe somehow shows up as well to help you. 

So, not to sound a little bit cliche, but going back to Paulo Coelho's novel, The Alchemist, I do believe that there's magic in the air and something kind of propels you forward when you're doing what you're supposed to be doing. 

[03:14] Ingrid: That's really nice. So what are the key takeaways, then, do you think, from this season's episodes?

[03:21] Jennifer: Well, first of all, I've had such amazing guests on the show. I mean, I've been so honored to be able to podcast at the Villars Summit and also at Building Bridges, both of which are Swiss nonprofit organizations focused on addressing planetary challenges. 

I've had a lot of guests that are working on the environment, on environmental issues, and also creating social impact. But having said that, I've also had the honor to sit with some of the elders. So like Klaus Schwab, Founder of the World Economic Forum. Her Deepness, Sylvia Earle, who even at the age of 90 is still going. 

Elisabeth Stern, who's a board member of the Senior Women for Climate Protection in Switzerland, who's campaigned for elderly people who are suffering from climate change at the European Court of Human Rights. And also Andres Ruzo, who's a serial entrepreneur and Chairman and CEO of LinkAmerica. 

On the other side, I've had one indigenous leader, Mindahi Bastida, where he talked about ancestral wisdom, indigenous wisdom - he's the founder and convener of the Earth Elders. There've been so many incredible people this season. 

And some of the key takeaways, I would say, when I had the chance to interview Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy, she's (a) twice Oscar-winning documentary maker. And she said she realized that one woman's determination can change the world.

It's related to her documentary Saving Face, where Rukhsana is one of the women who had (acid) poured on her face and she decided to take that and go to court making sure that doesn't happen to other women in her country.

So sometimes I feel like when we live in this world, there's a lot of things going on these days, geopolitically, social division wise, that we forget that we actually can make a difference. And so that quote, one woman's determination can change the world, that really is a statement of empowerment. And we need to remember that. 

We've also had Byron Leon, who's a hypnotist, on the show. And one thing I took away from his experience or his work is that success is our natural destination when we stop moving towards failure. We talked about the power of the subconscious. And I could relate to that in my own personal journey when I was launching the podcast, is that sometimes we hold ourselves back because of the doubts and the fears that come with it.

And last but not least, I have to say, having Prakash Govindan on the show. He's the founder of Gradiant, which is (the) first and only water tech unicorn, but he's also a bhakti yogi and he's now become my teacher. 

And I've been really absorbed, as you know, because we've been studying buddies on the Bhagavad Gita, which is the holy Hindu scripture that's thousands of years old that holds tremendous wisdom for those who seek it. 

So overall, I think this season had a huge impact and I hope it keeps on growing, not just on myself, but also to the listeners out there. Sorry, that was a bit of a long answer.

[06:43] Ingrid: Not at all. I really enjoy hearing the details. I'm really so impressed with what you're doing. 

So just going back to the technicalities then of your job as an interviewer, what do you think is the hardest thing about interviewing guests and what is the easiest? I don't know which way around you would like to start?

[07:04] Jennifer: Well, I think what I consider to be the easiest might be the hardest for some people. I find connecting with people very easy - I really do. And what I consider to be the hardest is really staying in the moment, although I've improved a lot. 

It's not just during the interview, but it's also, I think, in my everyday life. Calming the mind, really, the power of now, let's put it this way, (is) still something that I struggle with. And this is my daily spiritual practice. That's what I find the hardest, I think.

[07:42] Ingrid: I know that you're working hard on this issue by going through lots of really interesting personal experiences. This year, I believe you went to the Amazon on a personal quest and you also went on a hypnotism and magnetism workshop. 

So maybe you can tell us a little bit more about how those two experiences helped shape things for you.

[08:05] Jennifer: Absolutely. So it was an incredible experience and it was a learning journey that I went on with Amazon Sacred Headwaters Alliance, which is an alliance of 30 indigenous tribes looking to preserve 85 million acres of land between the Ecuadorian and the Peruvian Amazon. 

We spent 10 days in the forest - we stayed with two tribes, the Achuar tribe and the Sapara tribe. And it was a very different experience in both places. 

I've learned to live in tune with nature.Because there is no electricity, I would naturally go to bed between 8:30 to 9 and then wake up at the crack of dawn.  We had dream circles - woke up every day at 4am and drank Guayusa tea. And we shared our dreams in a circle, we did dream interpretation.

And it was amazing to be with those people because (of) the simplicity of life there, because of (the) lack of the modern tools. And just being in the forest next to the river, it gave me a different energy. 

I've talked about this on the show as well, about the hummingbird that came to me when I was meditating in the forest. And it was just amazing. And I'm still trying to figure out what she was trying to say to me.

But we were asked to meditate in the forest and I started meditating and chanting this mantra that Monk Burin had taught me. And five minutes later, this beautiful hummingbird came to me right in front of my eyes, at my eye level. And it was the most magical moment, and it was as if time stood still. And I don't really know how long she stayed. 

It felt like maybe two minutes and maybe it was only, you know, 10 seconds or 15 seconds, something like that. So the magic of the forest and going back to something that's really simple was what I learned on this trip. 

But also these people, they live with a lot of challenges in their lives too. You know, they still suffer from traumas of past colonialism. They are constantly challenged with money, right? Because they need money to educate their kids, and related to also healthcare, they need to raise money. If someone's sick, they need to take them to the hospital and that requires money. 

And they suffer discrimination in their own country when they go into the cities. And also I think more importantly, they have to also defend their own territories against illegal logging, illegal mining. 

And these indigenous leaders continue to be in danger. I know we don't talk about it enough, but there are so many indigenous leaders that are being threatened still for defending their land. So those are the things that I saw when I was there. 

And when I came back I also realized how much we over-consume in our modern world. I became almost a vegetarian when I was there because meat and proteins were just not as readily available. And so we ate mostly plantain and yuca, which are the stable of the diet. 

And I remember when I came back and I went to the grocery store buying food and seeing the amount of meat that's available, it was daunting. So I think going forward, I would consume less. Those are the things that I could do. And then I'll also help to spread some of the messages from the forest.

[11:42] Ingrid: So you also went on a hypnotism workshop with one of your podcast guests, Byron Leon? Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[11:50] Jennifer: Sure. I don't think I could say too much about it because I don't want to give away his teachings. But all I can say is that I had a very mystical experience that I can't explain, that he held the space so that my subconscious could come forward. 

And the message that he delivered to me really helped me as I was going through, and I'm still going through a very difficult challenge in my personal life. And Byron is coming out with a new show next March, actually, in Switzerland. It's called Shaman. So he's going to be channeling some of his shamanic energies on the show.

[12:26] Ingrid: Can you maybe tell us a little bit about the personal challenges that you've been going through then during this last season?

[12:35] Jennifer: Well, I have to say that as we are studying the Bhagavad Gita together, it's given me a lot of peace. It's a very difficult situation, and it's undoubtedly the hardest three months that I've had in my life.

But I think being on a spiritual path and also being on the spiritual path with you, Ingrid, has really helped me. And we've been studying the Bhagavad Gita chapter by chapter every other week. And it's really raised my own consciousness. And it's also allowed me to see some of the deeper teachings. 

I think we talked about the three peace formulas from the Bhagavad Gita. Number one is that we're not the chief enjoyer of anything. And number two, nothing belongs to us - there's an impermanence because time takes everything away. And it's very important to take shelter in the Divine through good and bad (times). So those are my learnings from my guest and putting it into my own life. 

And also, there was an excerpt from the Talmud - it says:

Do not be taunted by the enormity of the world's grief. 

Do justly now. Love mercy mercy now. Walk humbly now.

You're not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it. 

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So that reminds me of something that Cristina Mittermeier and I talked about on our episode. She said, you know, we just need to continue to plant these seeds and maybe we'll never see the fruits of our action in this lifetime because our lives are so short compared to the existence of the universe. 

But it's (important) not to give up and to do the work that we have to do and plant these seeds along the way and hope that the seeds will blossom into a fruit - maybe in the next generation. So it doesn't absolve us from not doing what we're supposed to do, but just to keep doing what we're supposed to do. I don't know if that answers your question.

[14:43] Ingrid: It does. And it makes me think also of the lesson from the Bhagavad Gita, which is that you must do your duty without attachment to the results. In many aspects of life, or especially, I mean, when you think about the global challenges of social justice or the environment, we're not going to see the results anyway, so we must just valiantly do our small part in as best way we can. 

Well, we're talking about many spiritual things. Yes, maybe. So this is sort of looming here, but can you just speak to your deeper why? Like, what's the real reason that you do this podcast? What keeps you coming back, and what's motivating you in the long term to do this work?

[15:23] Jennifer: Sure. So I think I actually touched upon some of it at the beginning during the trailer. And I have to say that even at the end of the first season, I talked about finding a business model. How can I make money from it?

And I would have to say that during the second season, I realized that actually I wanted to make sure that it stays pure, and I didn't want to be biased by any potential sponsorship. So I still don't have a business model. So the deeper why for me is not to make money and not to become an influencer. I think it's really to help myself and also help other people. 

So sometimes I look for signs and whether or not I should continue this work. And every now and then I get messages on social media and people telling me how much this is impacting their lives and how much they enjoy to hear the story of some of the people that I interview. 

So the deeper why is to really help people on their own life journey. But maybe the person that has impacted the most is me, because I'm there with every episode, with every guest. And I feel like that it's really elevated my own consciousness in a very unexpected way. 

And the original intent was always to help other people who might be searching for their path in life. But I realized that the person that has helped the most is probably me.

[17:00] Ingrid: So can you tell me maybe your hopes for the next chapter? Are you looking ahead to the fourth season? Have you got ideas for guests or themes that you want to approach already?

[17:11] Jennifer: Sure. I've already have a couple pre-recorded episodes that I'll be launching at the beginning of the fourth season. 

In terms of my hopes for the fourth season, when I was talking to Cristina Mittermeier, who's the National Geographic photographer and conservationist, she mentioned something about creating a new socioeconomic paradigm. Otherwise we're just being trapped in the narrow ideology of maximizing shareholder value.

So reflecting on that, and I agree with her, I think we need to come up with a new socioeconomic paradigm that's rooted in equity, that's rooted in resilience, that's rooted in community-building, that's rooted in compassion. I don't think we have a lot of that in the world today. 

But that also needs to be accompanied, I believe, in our own consciousness. Because, you know, one of the guests that I had on my show was Karen Tse in the second season. She's the founder of International Bridges to Justice. She's a human rights lawyer. She said, you know, if we don't change ourselves, even if we change the political regime or even if we change policies, we will always end up with the same outcome. 

So a lot of the first two seasons have been devoted to how do I elevate the collective consciousness. And actually at Building Bridges, I had a chance to meet a youth climate activist, Xiye Bastida, who's the daughter of Mindahi Bastida, whom I had on the show. And she is wise beyond her age. 

And I had asked her this question - how do we uplift our collective consciousness? And she said, you know, you don't have to uplift the collective consciousness as long as you uplift your own consciousness. Then on average, the collective consciousness is being raised. And it's true, because the only control and influence that we truly have is on ourselves. So I think the work continues. 

I'm also trying to figure out how do we change the socioeconomic paradigm so that we could benefit all and not just the shareholders. So let's see, let’s see where I get from here.

[19:40] Ingrid: With regards specifically to that theme, shifting the socioeconomic paradigm. Do you have any ideas of people that you would really like to interview?

[19:48] Jennifer: Actually, I do. One of the guests came to me - Jay, he is launching a movement called the No End philosophy. So by removing the shareholder bias that we have in our existing enterprise model, he is creating different operating business models where the parent company is not necessarily a corporate structure, but it's held by a non-for-profit. 

So this relates to only income generating businesses, of course, but with the profit that it generates, it goes back to expansion of the businesses and also to funding grassroots effort at the community level. His company is called Denesfa and they own a coffee shop chain in Budapest. 

So I'm looking forward to having him on the show to explain a little bit more about his own journey and his vision going forward. And it's one of the few, I would say, socioeconomic paradigm shifts that I've seen that's happening in real life. 

So he's piloting the program and we'll see what happens. And you know, in exploring this new operating model, we’ll make a lot of mistakes on the way. But that's okay. 

[21:02] Ingrid: Fascinating. Okay, I'm gonna send you a real curveball question. Maybe this was suggested by your friend Birgitte. If you could describe yourself as a spirit, can you say something about your spirit's journey in this lifetime?

[21:19] Jennifer: My goodness, that is a really difficult question. So I have to go back to the teaching from the Bhagavad Gita - we're not this body and we are a spark of consciousness that lives forever and the soul is always blissful. That is our true nature - our true nature is this blissful soul. 

My journey, wow, it’s beset with many obstacles. It may come in different physical shapes and forms, but I think it's ultimately the same for everybody. I do think that many challenges that we face in life, as I'm facing now, they are opportunities for growth and it's opportunity to learn. 

There are different ways to face these challenges, and the choice is always yours. The choice is whether you want to be stuck, remain frozen and live in a narrative of fear, or whether or not you want to look forward and do the best that you can. 

I think there are many injustices in the world that we have today. As much as we hope for justice and truth to surface in this lifetime, it may or may not happen. But I think the journey of the soul is related to how we react to those challenges, how we overcome them, and how we also conquer our minds.

As we've learned in the Bhagavad Gita, the mind can be your best friend or it can be your worst enemy. And that's, I think, related to Byron's teaching, which is how to not let it stop you from moving towards the destination of success.

[23:03] Ingrid: I think when you started this podcast, because of your business and finance background, I really anticipated that you would be interviewing a lot of business leaders. I mean, you do interview business leaders, but I thought that was going to be really a focus. 

So for me, I guess, like, my appreciation of what you mean by the founder spirit has really evolved, perhaps with the types of guests that you've had on the show. And I think the breadth of people that you managed to interview is really inspiring in itself because it just goes to show that everybody, in so many different capacities and roles, is learning so much and everybody has something to share. 

So it's really just fun, fascinating that you kind of glean all this rich wisdom from all these different people on different walks of life. So I really appreciate it and the listeners...

[23:54] Jennifer:  Thank you so much. Actually, you know, it's become part of my spiritual journey, which is not what I had intended when I first started it. And in an unexpected way, it's pushed me along to higher planes in my own consciousness. 

So I am very grateful for all the listeners out there that are tuning in to support me and for you being here to help me over the few years, over the last decade that we’ve known each other. And I hope people continue to tune in and continue to be inspired as I get inspired by these people.

[24:30] Ingrid: Thank you, Jennifer. I look forward to next season.

[24:33] Jennifer: Thank you, Ingrid.

If this podcast has been beneficial or valuable to you, feel free to become a patron and support us on Patreon.com, that is P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com/TheFounderSpirit. 

As always, you can find us on Apple, Amazon and Spotify, as well as social media and our website at TheFounderSpirit.com. 

The Founder Spirit podcast is a partner of the Villars Institute, a nonprofit foundation focused on accelerating the transition to a net-zero economy and restoring planetary health. 

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